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this is an email i sent to my dad today in an ongoing debate he and i… - polemicist playground [entries|archive|friends|userinfo]
frameandcanvass

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[Jun. 5th, 2004|10:41 am]
frameandcanvass
frameandcanvass
[breakermorant]
this is an email i sent to my dad today in an ongoing debate he and i have about bush vs kerry. my dad is awesome...he's so 2-sided on anything that it's impossible to have a heated debate with him. you can scream at him with your issues and he'll say, "i see your point- and it is a good one. it's definetly something to think about. but i see it this way right now...". he really is a lot more open-minded than i make him seem here. i'm not even sure what his real views are as he's playing devil's advocate half the time. so here's a few quotes from his email, and my angry replies. my replies are a bit out of order and cut and pasted here and there...bear with it.

"I can't vote for someone who just says "the other guy is doing a bad job"; maybe I agree that he's doing a bad job, but tell me what you would actually do to improve things."-dad

i think that's closed-minded. again i use the phrase, "anyone but bush". i don't care if kerry sat in office with his thumb in his ass for four years, he'd do a better job. he doesn't strike me as a criminal with no regard for honesty, dignity, or the lives of soldiers/innocents. bush is literally evil to me. he has broken nearly every promise he has made in both campaigning and his very oath to presidency. he does these things right and left and noone calls him on any of it for fear of being un- american. he was evil when he was governer and he's evil as president. he only now beginning to be investigated for his literal sabotage of valerie plame's CIA career and grave endangerment of her life. recently he hired a private attorney to help him out. i hope he gets proper fucked. it pisses me off because it's by all means a federal case of sabatoge- one that would have put me behind bars for 30-life in federal prison.
***for those of you unaware-- ambassador joe wilson came out with claims that bush mischaracterized a key piece of evidence that Saddam Hussein was purchasing WMDs from the nation of Niger. in retaliation...the administration authorized the outing the identity of his wife, CIA operative plame. for no other reason than that. it was simple schoolyard bully tactics employed by the bush cartel because someone 'insulted' dubyah. a tactic that threatened the life of a CIA agent and ruined her career permanently. funny considering that the woman's job was keeping WMDs out of the US...kind of ironic. there's a whole book about it by Ambassador Joe Wilson that's great.****


you're basically saying "bush is a bad president and he sure has made a lot of mistakes and killed a lot of people and lied about a lot of things and isn't too bright but....well kerry hasn't really outlined his tax intentions so far". why would it even matter? it's not like bush has held up half of anything he's ever said he would. kerry could tell you he intends to give 2 million dollars to every us citizen whil lowering the overall crime rate by 75% and ending all war in the world and it wouldn't matter. there are little restrictions on what a candidate can or can't claim he'll do while campaigning....it's under the freedom of speech. so basically you'd rather take bush's lies over kerry's earlier indecision.
"i could take a shit in a box and stamp it guaranteed, but you and i both know all i'm selling you is a box of shit." bush is that box. kerry just isn't guaranteed.

i've been to the bush-cheney website and it makes me sick the stuff they use and abuse for their gain. for example....go look at the "interactive timeline: kerry on iraq". all of that stuff is used to make kerry seem so shifty and undecided and unstable....his stance is totally legit to me. they use this thing that kerry said it would be "irresponsible" of him (on june 15) to make a public decision as to whether or not bush misled the US on the WMDs. then on june 18 he says bush misled us and waged an unjust war. and? how is that any different from the rest of us? i know i thought he was telling the truth for a while. i figured..."why would anyone lie about something as big as this?" if anything it looks like kerry was hesitant to publicly down bush for being a liar and perhaps was pushed a bit by his staff in the following days to give his opinion. what's the problem? they use the fact that kerry voted to go to war in iraq....untrue. kerry voted to ensure that sadaam felt threatened...not to lie about WMDs, wage a war on people who had NOTHING to do with 911, and kill thousands of people for no real reason other than to find a guy who we didn't even really find ourselves.-- the kurds found sadaam but our soldiers sure did get the credit for pulling him out of the hole. views change as things become more clear. i agreed with the war for a while, too, until i found out just how much bullshit was involved. until i sat down and thought about what the hell happened to the real terrorists- osma bin laden. we were so quick to give up on him and rush into iraq that it made my head spin. we were so quick to forget about korea as well. and how much do you want to bet that osama just happens to pop up shortly before the election? or that the terror alert goes up to fire-engine red? we COULD give him another 4 years and wait for the US to overthrow venezuela next....don't believe me?

hell, the bush family has more ties to osama bin laden than sadaam does...seriously. i'd rather have a president who changed his views during his campaign than one who arbitrarily lies about his goals and views to the voters

it's easy to say that he hasn't made a stand on anything just from listening to NPR and reading the houston chronicle. we had THAT discussion today on the phone. if you go to his website you'll see lots of stuff he clearly feels strong about and makes a stand about that would make rounds around the pit bush has put us in as far as economy, more jobs, education, veterans, trade, EXCELLENT military care including education/benefits/pay/housing/children, etc. unlike bush who decided to cut the "wartime" pay for soldiers in iraq some 7 months ago or more claiming the "war" was over. are we in war? yes. do our soldiers get war-duty pay? no. bush cut it out. he also tried to reduce the hazard-pay for his boys getting killed over there for no reason. not only that, but he's sending wounded soldiers back into action long before they are stable enough and received adequate health-care. he's trying to cut the veteran budget by billions. and these are the very reasons i can't believe people who stand by bush in the military saying, "he's on our side, not kerry. kerry didn't like vietnam- that's unamerican. bush served. where? dunno. but he served and didn't complain about the sensless war and now we're in the middle of one." he takes a stand on women's rights...one that bush is clearly against. i think it's strange that bush is so firm against women having the right to end the life of a fetus in them, but he won't think twice about executing a mentally retarded man or publicly mocking karla faye tucker after her execution like a fucking little kid.

i doubt there's anyone out there you can find to argue that it isn't 'good' that we took out sadaam. he is indeed a horrible man who needed to be removed. but there are ways and methods of doing things in a civilized society where honesty is still valued....i guess. it's a good thing to get sadaam. it's NOT a good thing to find out later that the very reasons he went after him were fictitous and that he knew it the whole time. that he had made it clear to members of his administration back in 2000 that he intended to take out sadaam at whatever cost...even 818 soldiers dead and some 4,000 wounded. it's ok though...we can get more since he's trying to reinstate the draft for june of 2005. no border jumping...no college. under HIS write-up of it, seniors chosen for the draft have until the end of the year to go serve, and all under-classmen have until the end of that semester. great. and if you ask me, this stop loss is just as bad. it's just a backdoor draft and it's causing even MORE people to run out of the military than ever before. it's HIS faulty handling of the military that is doing this and making our numbers the lowest they've been since vietnam ended.

"The idea that it's justifiable to kill civilians just to make a political statement is the worst level of barbarism. The world needs to be safe from that sort of murder before we can begin to address market and supply issues that will make sense for the future"----dad

i disagree. i don't think it's at all the worst level of barbarism. it is base and horrible, but it's no worse than the things our soldiers do in times of war. take ANY war and look at the things we did to our enemies. we have a barbarian cowboy in office right now who i don't consider much better than the terrorists themselves. if you follow the definition of the word and bush's career in politics-- he fits the description to a T. how about the idea that the civilians death is our fault? the fact that he wasn't even supposed to be over there but was detained by the military and held in harm's way and prevented from going home when he should have. i guarantee you that in the years to come we will begin to hear soldiers coming forward with things they did or saw in war that our soldiers did that was barbaric. it happens all the time. and like you said, anyway, if we want to focus on that then there are more important countries to go into and interrupt in which worse stuff is happening.


how about bush's flip-flops and lies?----

how about his claims that the majority of tax cuts go to the people at the bottom when it's a flat out lie. the statistic shown is that "the bottom SIXTY PERCENT got 14.7% of tax cuts". that's just a tad short of his claims, right?

how about his major claim to care about lessening health care and prescription costs? if that's the case why is it ILLEGAL to get our drugs from canada? why are old people getting figuratively raped in the ass for prescription drugs when they could cut a HUGE chunk out of the price by trading with canada? it's because prescription companies are a huge, crooked corporation just like enron and tied in greatly with the government. or is it because canada doesn't support the war on terror and they're freedom haters?

how about his claim to really, truly care for the environment and do everything in his power to preserve and help it's growth? that's the biggest case of bullshit i've heard from him so far. this man has done numbers to our environment in just the last 4 years. a few...

- overruling the NRDC by allowing hog farmers to ruin our soil and water
- drilling oil in the great lakes
- completely rewritten regulations to allow dumping of strip mine wastes into rivers. (wtf?!)
- Yucca Mts nuclear waste dump...and lying about it.
- etc.

i don't want to hear anything from bush on the economy or environment unless he'll just admit flat out that his agenda is to ruin it.

we could go back and forth forever....i guess i'm so passionate about it because i really can't stomach or imagine another 4 years with bush. i guess you have to weigh out the good with the bad in the end...and in my eyes his bad surpassed any good within the first year of office. he has no regards for anything. he goes against truth, morals, laws, the constitution, bill of rights, honor, respect, etc. the man's a character. one that i don't think i could handle. 'm literally afraid of november for that very reason.
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